London Real Brian Rose (BR) interviews Jason Silva (JS) broadcast live on Facebook Live [recording LINK ] on 16 October 2018 || Duration: 1hr47min

Transcriber's Note: The following is a mix of a rough transcription [ typos may exist ] and video notes (paraphrasing) of about an hour’s worth of the interview: Use the cue marks to scrub to the part of the video that interests you to see/hear what exactly was said

Cue 44:50

BR: But first, I want you to tell me a little about love…

JS: chuckles

BR:...because you mention getting into the flow, staring into your partner's eyes

Oh, most people wouldn't understand that to be flow...


45:00 ...

BR: because this concept of love is a hard one to understand

In some different languages there's six different words for love

45:08 JS:

45:15 for me, I would fall in line with the ideas of Ernest Becker... The Denial of Death

Psychoanalytic distillation of the human condition


45:31 the key idea is that the worm at the core, the faint disquiet, that invades you sometime at night, when you don't have all your defenses , or when you don't trivialize yourself with trivialities and busyness... 45:46 is the source of our existential malaise, of neurotic distress

Freud ...sexually repressed

Becker... deeper than this... death anxiety [ unique awareness that we are mortal beings ]

Bridge the finite with the infinite

religious impulse

romantic solution to the problem of death [ Western construct of romantic love - she is the wind, the salvation, the sun, the movies we love, the pop stars we love,

Rendered into a holy entity

Raising a person into a divine space

You are raised to divinity

romance helps you step off the people mover... [ that drops you into the grave ]

gods outside of time

it's intoxicating

48:56 it puts you into the timeless realm, it puts you into the sacred realm

49:00 it puts you into the mythopoetic trance, it puts you into the story realm

It puts you into the narrative realm

It puts you into the mythologic realm

49:08 like love lifts you up, and it's a beautiful fucking thing... it's also a lot of pressure



The burden of godhood is a very real thing... you gotta work on love, you gotta cultivate love

you gotta be willing to hack the backdrop

49:24 that sustains that love

If you have the same fucking routine, if you're taking your partner for granted


Love will die

So you gotta do all the things [ for flow ] to keep love going

so, if novelty increases flow... novelty will boost love

If challenges and fear boosts flow... the same thing will boost love

So go on adventure with your lover... do unusual things with your lover... cultivate

Enter into altered states with your lover

49:55 you know, realizing that the fetching water and the chopping wood

That the maintenance procedure

50:02 applies to maintaining the divine mental state of love

50:09 and I think if you do that

I think you can sustain it in the long haul


People who are forever in love

50:16 maybe if they are conscious of it or not

Have figured out a way to sustain it

50:20 they've turned their Self systems from leaky buckets into collanders

50:24 someway, somehow... that hasn't scaled... not everyone gets that... most people end in divorce, but I like to believe that's possible

50:33 and yeah, I'm an artist... so I love love.

50:38 BR: and you're experimenting with love a little bit?

JS: yeah, I've had a couple 50:44 false starts in my life 50:46

50:50 JS: I think we're all casting for a co-creator

It takes two to tango

50:53 even the greatest romantic and ontological DJs amongst us who believe we can concoct the cinema that is love , the magical realism That is a romantic relationship

51:06 raised to the highest order

Sometimes struggle with finding co-authors

51:13 we can't build it ourselves... we need someone else to help build it with us

51:15 and if we can find that... that's a cool thing, man

BR: there's a biological component

JS: you know, a dream you dream alone is just a dream, a dream you dream together is reality

Love is a cosmology of two

51:27 at the very least... shaped like a heart... the universe shaped like a heart

BR: so now you can

51:32 [ so now you can ... ] recognize it, I'm playing with it, this really potentially dangerous

fiery... but I'm going to play with it, and I'm going to see what I can do with it...

51:26 and I'm going to do here, and go timeless and not

JS: you have to [ Diane Ackerman ]

BR: you have to, it's your duty

JS: yeah, to realize ... that's what you're doing ... you're playing... but playing is being

11:24 playing...

Is actualizing imagination... we play that's what we do.. we imagine things in our head, then with our modest looking thumbs we create tools and technologies that allow the playthings in our minds to become real

And the ... we build the tools, and the tools build us

51:54 We have this capacity of play as a means to making real

52:03 you know, we're not just human beings we're human becomings

We become what we behold

We become what we play with

We become what we practice

As I recite therefore I become

52:11 JS: Diane Ackerman - deep play - if you are self aware enough to practice and deploy

Tools at your disposal

To concoct reality authoring games for yourself

Well, fuck

And they should be infinite games

James Carse wrote about infinite games

Finite games are played to win or lose

That fucking sucks

the game is over, you're dead

Infinite games are played to keep the game going


So, alright, how can we play to keep this game going? Well that's the fucking holy grail

BR: why do you go to burning man, we've all heard the stories, there are great things that happen there

I know Daublin and Napps people are there - I know there are great see the statues

I still have yet to go...

Why do you go, and what do you see there?



53:03 what kind of ideas

JS: This is my first time

BR: wow, dude, no way

JS: this is my first time, and I think I've been invited for almost a decade


BR: and you never said yes

JS: I think I never was ready

I think I knew

The art would be outrageous

The encounters would be enchanting

I think I was afraid of all the variables I wouldn't be able to control

I definitely have a relationship with control

That is something I've been working on

I believe that flow is at the intersection of


Discipline and surrender

Cue 53:43 and I'm a person that is more on the discipline side and less on the surrender side

Because SOA is a container

In which I practice surrender

But the discipline part

Is in all the reading I do beforehand

In bringing the camera along

in following through with the edit

Michael Polland says the ego is what gets the book written

He took all the psychedelics to get ego death But in the end it was the ego that got the book written

Ven diagram

54:18 Jordan Peterson's toeing the line between chaos and order

Too much order: depression, anxiety - overly ordered brain with too much rumination

It's oppressive

But too much chaos, too much surrender

These are the personality disorders

This is a manic episode

This is the losing control

This is the going crazy

Go hurling into chaos

54:42 this is the personal crisis

And so, you actually have to toe the line

You need to surf the wave

The discipline I have down

The surrender I'm working on

Losing track of all my shit

my life going into chaos

Oh, I forgot to pay the bills, and not making this appointment on time

And getting fired and the gigs stop coming

Chaos scares me

Too much surrender scares me

55:42 but if you balance those two things, man? You're good to go


BR: and so Burning Man you thought would be too much input


[ video / audio not syncing - lag time noted; stopping restarting video ]

BR: So you thought burning man would be too much input

55:47 JS: I felt that burning man would be too much chaos

Cue 55:51

It would hurl me into chaos

And I wouldn't be able to sleep

because of the noise

and the dust storms would screw me up

and That maybe somebody would dose me with some drug I didn't know what it was and I'd have a panic attack and a meltdown

JS: like I envisioned the worst case scenario 56:02

But what I did is I mitigated against that

By doing all the planning

To the highest order

Bringing people around me that made me feel safe

Bringing a little bit of that home and security and predictability with me


And once I had all those boxes ticked, then, I was able to surrender fully

And then once I did... HOLY SHIT, man, did the light get through


BR: so, how was it, what happened?

56:25 one of the things that is really amazing... Erik Davis

Who has written about Burning Man, he wrote Techgnosis

He says that Burning Man is essentially a metaphysical flea market


And a demolition derby of reality constructs

Colliding in a parched void

So what it does is... the flat, sort of empty lake bed

Is like this blank canvas

It's a very strange landscape that...


That puts you in a state of ... like you don't know where you're standing

You're removed from all reference points

It kind of feels like invisibility in every direction

So your sense of up and down is completely inverted


So this blank canvas, it's very much a liminal zone 57:14

Is a place between dreams and reality

It's a surreal landscape

And then they populate this landscape with the highest...

Installations and expressions of human creativity [ on the planet ]


Then all these different pocket universes

Are all juxtaposed next to one another

So here you have a giant statue of a beautiful goddess dancing, this dancing ecstatic woman

And here you have a weird 1920s movie theater

And here you have this like giant lobster with a penis sticking out of it


Like completely unrelated reality constructs

But they're side by side

So it creates this intense juxtaposition

Or this feeling of an assemblage

Or like a collage


So assemblages is the art of surrealism

Like Dalí... all his paintings are like assemblages

Of different things


It creates a surreal feeling

To bring things together that are seemingly unrelated


So what Erik Davis says is a lot of synchronicity and serendipity



So what he says is synchronicity ... or juxtaposition, rather, juxtaposition ... all these different unrelated

Fucking creative constructs

Juxtaposed against

Against this desolate landscape

This parched void

Juxtaposition is the formal operating space

Of synchronicity

And what happens is... the experience for you is, you 'll be walking around, seeing this installation or that installation

Bike riding

You're just

"What am I looking at?"

Where are my reference points?


And before you know it you have an evanescent lightning bolt of meaning

In the perceiver's mind

So you have these moments where all of a sudden

Phew! THIS finds a connection to THIS

Which finds a connection to THAT which tells you something

About yourself

59:03 your past... and you have this moment of apotheosis ... apotheotic catharsis

59:11 and that Playa moment ...comes the breakdown to breakthrough


And it's funny that people who really surrender and submit to burning man have a very similar experience


They face their demons

They have a big cry

They get lost, but then they get found

They see hell but then they find heaven


And it's a compressed container for a highly transformative experience


BR: and that happened to you...

JS: ...if you treat it as... such

BR: ok... if you surrender and ... ok but that happens ... [ to you ]

JS: yeah, yeah, yeah... and I fell in love


And I had magical, magical moments there

I had outrageous encounters with the art

I had a deep cry at the temple, which is a non-denominational temple where people come to grieve for lost ones 1:00:00 [ one hour in ]

The pictures and candles

And little notes - handwritten notes about people that have died

So you go there and you experience this collective grieving

I had a moment of grieving there.. I cried for everybody I ever lost

For everybody I ever loved

It was very powerful

1:00:19 JS: and then, and then, yeah, I met somebody

Really dropped in with her

BR: probably because you were in this

JS: of course, of course... I was... we all want to connect with somebody. But we're usually in the wrong context for it

We're contextual beings

This is a place built to crack you open

so then you have an open heart

Then you say what you've always wanted to say

But can't

It's like instead of the usual club passwords

Leary talks about

"How you doin'?"


"How you doin'? How's your day? Good?

"How's the weather?"


when what you really want to say is

What makes you cry

What makes your heart light up

What makes you smile so beautifully with your eyes

Do you want to dance with me?

Do you want to be my lover?


And the things we want to say when we feel butterflies in our stomach with somebody

We have permission to say at Burning Man

So in that sense it's a fucking healing place to commune

So I came together with somebody there

And she kind of rocked my world

And over the course of an entire day

Then, the next day, of course, I lost her

I couldn't find her anywhere

BR: Oh, my gosh

JS: There's 70,000 people there

Biked around all day looking for her

got caught in the seeking mentality

And got told very quickly

You have to let go

You have to surrender

So the following day

I was getting ready to leave

I was like: ok, fine... I'm done. I'll send her a FB message when I get back to the default world

And then my buddy, a dear friend of mine, was like: "let's do one more bike, let's see what the Playa wants'

The Playa is like the open canvas of Burning Man


So we biked out


And, uh, 70,000 people

We're going to bike in the direction like where her camp was

Like maybe we'd see her

I leave my camp, I turn right onto the main road

The Esplanade

Two minutes into pedaling

Somebody bikes past me and says

Hey, Jason!

It was her

I turn around

I had like a reverse Dali shot moment

When I thought it was a SOA fan

I hear a girl's voice and Vrsz!

Like when you zoom in, that Dali shot, and pull out the camera at the same time


And as my eyes come into focus

It was her


So here I was, like, would I see her again?

Will I find her again? .... Cellphones don't work

I trust I trust I trust

First person that I see as I start to pedal

In the 70,000 person event

She finds me

And, of course, we spend the whole day together

Ok, it's a sign. Synchronicities abound

And exactly the kind of synchronicities that you read about

That you expect

ue 1:02:12 but that some part of you doubts

People are like:

Yeah, synchronicities like this

people are more open

To see patterns where there are none

But like, come on, 70,000 people

One person I wanted to find

And she's the first person I see when I bike out?

On the day that I was going to leave

BR: you're a believer

JS: well,


it makes you believe

BR: but you don't know if you're a believer yet

JS: I.. I am a believer ... it's just that

The conditions for the miraculous

Require preconditions

1:02:50 cue mark

fire emerges when the conditions are right

You have, whatever, the dry thing

And then the spark

Phew!!! The flame emerges

Tornadoes only happen

When certain environmental conditions fall perfectly into place

And then PSHEW!... and then you have this self-organizing thing

Out of nowhere

Life exists only in the Goldilocks zone

Not too hot, not too cold


Perfectly placed [ pano ]

Perfect distance from the sun

Like, all these perfect conditions,

That then engender transcendent effects

Transcendent effects are when the sum of the parts add up to more than the parts

And so, I think serendipity and synchronicity

And these subjective experiences of the miraculous are what Erik Davis calls poetic facts

Still require preconditions

And I am a believer that when the preconditions are there

Are... abso-fucking-lutely

But when the preconditions

Are not there

Well, then, I don't know


I am somebody who pays attention to the preconditions

Tries to cultivate environments to engender the miraculous ... I am always looking for the miraculous the miraculous lifts me up above my animal condition


The miraculous knocks me on the shoulder

And gives me the chills on the back of my neck

And says "worry not"


BR: And so you're in the middle of this kind of love experiment now

JS: oh, yeah. I'm like all into it. Two feet in I like to say

. I'm all in

BR: and by choice ... you're like "let's go all in"

And to say "what this is like

JS: and learning to say "yes" and intentional

And to have the discipline

And to have the commitment

And to choose every day


And to trust [ JS air chuckles ]

BR: yeah, it's scary

JS: I have to trust... the trust is the part I can't control



1:08:29 Terence McKenna said trust your experience

1:09:17 YouTube

Sam Harris (and wife) friends with JS

JS an artist (not an academic)

long form podcasts


More than a video platform

Repository of our consciousness

Library of Alexandria ... that can't be burned down

It contains all our junk, too

Stored there forever

My videos have been a way to find the others, or rather, allowed the others to find me

They're my beacon in the night

I owe my career to SOA... and SOA came about while I was in an altered state mediated by cannabis

Cue 1:12:14

Relates to psychedelic religious vision

Ripple effects ... amplified via these platforms

1:13:44 we're not used to receiving the scrutiny and the attention of thousands much less millions of people

We infer the mental states of others

We can do mind reading, right?

But imagine the millions of people that are inferring my mental state

1:13:58 that's a million people who watched it... had a moment of intersubjective communion with me

and they infer my mental states, they listen to what I said

They responded emotionally to it

Or they might have chosen to share it

That's like I planted a seed

I've taken up real estate in the minds of millions

Even though I am only one person

And I could never know those millions of people

But those millions souls know me


1:14:28 which is insane to think... to think that my consciousness

Through mnemonic distribution ... I've turned my mind inside out


my consciousness... and your consciousness is like a tapestry...


In this collective consciousness

Ideas have sex

Ideas leap from brain to brain

Ideas have infectivity


Spreading power... of ideas

What is the future of this?

Your 2D words

On your obituary what will be thanking JS for?


JS: well, first and foremost, my friend, you and I hope will benefit from radical life extension technologies so we'll drink from the wine of centuries unborn and have hundreds of years of these discourses and I'm looking forward to the next visit in 150 years to chat with you again

BR: let's book it

JS: I do not accept mortality... but

But, no, I think that the future, even the short-term future


Will be that we get to experience the minds of others more intimately and with a fidelity that we cannot even begin to imagine

I mean, Terence McKenna , who began as a psychedelic philosopher ended up as a proponent of cybernetics

And VR


And he says if you think we can obtain intimacy today through art


Through the mental states of an artist or poet

Through reading their poetry or experiencing their painting

Or seeing their cinema

That's amazing

I mean, I can get into Chris Nolan's mind by seeing Inception

No doubt

But he says in the future

We'll be able to visit each other's minds in virtual realities

I'll actually get to go into your mind

If I want to show you my room now, I invite you physically now to check out my room and watch the movies I like

We can listen to the albums I like

In the future

I'll be able to invite you into my mind


And I'll be able to visit yours

So, we'll be able to get to know in a level of fidelity that we cannot even begin to fathom right now


And that's kind of amazing, right?

The forms of intimacy that will emerge

When you're in love right now, what do you want more than anything else?


To know the person you're in love with

You want to know them

You really want to know them


To commune. To visit their cosmos, you know and...I think that will be more readily available as we deploy ecstatic technologies with virtual reality and psychedelics

Meditation and yoga

And the combination therein of all of these


BR: Will you be designing these future iterations of SOA?

1:17:27 ayahuasca ceremonies

1:17:38 do you ever feel limited by language?

So, the takeaway from a psychedelic experience or mystical experiences... is that they are ineffable

Ineffable means they can't be language

I think it's fair to say they can't be languaged with conventional, empirical journalistic literal grid language


But... poetry has an elasticity that can, I think encapsulate ineffability

Alain de Boton

Talks about truth that is beyond a literal grid

A deeper truth

That maybe is not as accurate

As a journalist reporting an event but nevertheless reveals the truths about it

That are beyond the literal grid

So I'm interested in poetic facts, poetic truth

Herzog the filmmaker

Facts do not illuminate

If you want facts, buy a phonebook. It's full of facts. But it doesn't illuminate. What he wants is ecstatic truth 1:18:53

1:18:58 and I know we are living in an age when people are confusing their opinion for facts

I'm not dismissing the importance of facts

And geography

And science and physics

I am pro facts

What I mean is in the realm of human subjectivity, of human meaning

We need poetry

And we need poetic language to express experiences which are beyond the literal grid

And so...

[ TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: silencing of video recording for about 30 seconds ]

1:19:47 much like cinema does. They are not documentaries, they're films

BR: well, if anyone can do it, I think you can

BR: this next project we're calling DISSOLUTION

Dissolving the ego

Beyond the ego

It started off with these ayahuasca experiences

But we're going to continue and try to look at

Different ways to come to this final conclusion

Which is to talk about we are all one

Deep life experience

We're trying to find different ways of understanding that

Whether if it's through ... endurance races, or flow or SOA

You're trying to edge the global consciousness kinda towards that

We are all one... but we are also individuals

For me, it's not so much the blurring of identity

I love how individuated we are

For me it's like

We're all in it together

So, we're all one family

But we're individual beings at the same time

We recognize the ways in which we are the same

But me recognizing you and you recognizing Me is a dual act of recognization

Revere and recognize the individual

That's why I can love some people and not love other people... although I can wish them well


I also have these experiences with those who resonate with my work

Total strangers

Who will stop me all over the world

"Hey, I really love your videos..."

I have an intuition immediately where I sense a kindred spirit.

A kindred spirit

But a self-sustaining entity nonetheless

We pat each other on the back

We give each other a wink of recognition

And then we each go forth and make our own dent in the universe

You know, because, sometimes the metaphor of we are all one

It dilutes the exquisiteness of you as an individual ... which I want to celebrate

BR: ok, that makes sense... and, what's next for you? Without the Brain Games... you know, five years is a long time

JS: yeah, you know, we did Brain Games for five seasons and then last year I did a show called Origins: the journey of humankind

Which was an 8 episode series

That tracked the key transformative moments that changed humanity

The origin of money, of religion, the origin of transportation... massive show on NatGeo that came out last year

I also started doing for the first time Jason Silva LIVE events around the world 3 in Canada, two in the U.S. ... we just did London

And this was a new thing for me because

This allowed the sort of million fans on the internet, on FB, to come see me live, people who resonate with my content

And gave me the freedom also to explore all these other topics

Because I've spent so much time doing just corporate talks

On tech and innovation, creativity

Which I love... I've been to Dubai and Australia

And everywhere in between

Talking about innovation and singularity

And using our tools to make this a better world

It's a big part of my message

I hope to continue to spread

That gospel

Um, but these events that are opened up to the public opened up a whole new space for me

So it's not just corporate audiences but it's anybody who's ever ... with a piece of video

Can now come hang out with me live

It's been amazing

So, we're planning

On doing some more of those

And then, really, just continuing to develop the craft of SOA

As the equipment becomes better

Even shooting stuff with my iPhone

Can take on the professional quality of a DSL camera

It just frees me to really travel and explore

And when some transmission wants to come in


Bring it on

And so, I want to keep pushing the envelope with the people I collaborate with

With the composers

With the editors that help me bring my vision to life

To deepen that

And I hoping to get into some VR collaborations

My friend has a VR production company, Tomorrow Never Knows

My friend Tom Lofthouse

Who was my partner on SOA for years

So we're hoping to do some collaboration in VR as well

And then, I'm psyched to explore LOVE, man


BR: I'm excited to hear about that

You mentioned the singularity

We'll talk it

Elon Musk... he talked about it (on Seth Rogan ? Show)

Has your thinking changed about that... for a lot of people who don't understand the singularity, how do you explain it?

JS: yeah, sure...I should say I continue to be completely optimisitic

That doesn't mean that there are not risks

Technology has always been a double-edged sword

So it really is up to us how we deploy these tools. No doubt.

1:24:53 Singularity is a metaphor to describe physics - what you experience when you go through a black hole

The laws of physics no longer apply

There have been singularities in human history

Kevin Kelly says that the emergence of language was a singularity

The rich symbolic abstractions [ of language ]

16:54 timestamp

1:25:39 there's a prediction that we're on our way to a technological singularity akin to a Cambrian explosion of mind

And this is due in part to that technology

Trends are expanding exponentially

vs. the way that we are thinking about change... which is linear

So, we have this linear intuition


But technology changes exponentially


Flying cars

Brain to machine interfaces

Downloading our consciousness to the machine

Maybe in a 1000 years

But they're thinking linearly

Not exponentially


Reverse engineering happens from the inside out


The creation of non-biological minds

Billions of times more powerful than us

Us merging with those tools

Because we're going to put those tools inside of ourselves

BR: we're already merged with our smartphones

JS: 100%

It's just that we have skinbag bias

Andy Chaumers ... philosophers

The thought that we end at the end of our skin tissue

But we don't

We live inside the condensation of human imagination

We think with our tools

When you write something down, part of your mind is now on the page, and then it's engaging in a feedback loop

The contents of your own mind

And allowing you to think different thoughts

we think through our tools

Same with our smartphones

Extended appendages, extended minds

We are already cyborgs

You put on a pair of glasses to help you read you are a cyborg

But the idea is that this hybridization

This merger with our tools will deepen

And as the tools give us new capacities it will evoke or birth new forms of human creativity



Genetic reprogramming


mastering the information processes of biology

Transforming the language of life itself

making it an engineering project

In nanotechnology

Pattern program atoms

Reality will essentially become programmable

We'll program our biology

We'll reprogram the physical matter the surrounds us and we'll have AI...

To deploy these three things:




Overlapping exponential revolutions

If you map out where they're heading, it's like staring at the sun

It's like an event horizon we can't see beyond it

and so, what do we do?

We use art and poetry

to imagine what that might look like


It's always been the artist who realizes the future is the present and uses his work to prepare the grounds for it


BR: so, how come they don't get any credit?

How come they don't get any air time?


It's like the science fiction writer... and they paint a picture of what's coming

We need storytellers

We need mythologists

To help us articulate the mythologies of our time

But these are mythologies backed by data-driven extrapolations

so, where we're heading is a realm in which we will essentially acquire the power of gods

The power to create life

the power to destroy life

Homo dais

The book by Haval Harary

Death will become optional

Immortality is coming

BR: and the arts will be even more important

They'll be levels we don't understand

Well, I'm just excited about the new aesthetic possibilities that open up

When we have new tools

New instruments

To make beautiful things with

BR: and you're optimistic

JS: I remain always optimistic

that's my choice, man

1:30:21 BR: what's JS's life look like in 20 years... you must have been offered positions at big companies to come in and be their... head of futurism

JS: chief philosophy officer

BR: I know this has happened...

1:30:34 JS: you know when... you know, I'm a big fan of TED (conference)

And when Chris Anderson

I'm attributing this quote to him

I hope I'm not butchering it

He was asked about the future of TED

The world is changing so fast

And we're changing every day

So it's silly

To have a 20 year plan

To have a 20 year map

So, we don't use maps

We use a compass

So, I was like, yeah... that's me... so, I don't have a map for 20 years from now

I have a compass

And I use my compass every day 1:31:11

BR: what does the compass tell you?


JS: the compass tells me to keep leaning in

Keep leaning in

Keep working on my craft

Making my art

Making my videos

Seeding the world with my content

And then seeing

What sprouts

From my seeding

I don't know exactly what's going to sprout

But it's been 6 years waking up to interesting invitations and invocations and every time I look at my e-mail box

So, I'm continuing to trust that process

BR: what's your biggest challenge right now?

[ fidgeting with his ear... ]

JS: managing my own fears


It's always been

I'm a bit of a hypochondriac

So, if I have a little ache, I'm like

"OMG... everything's ok? Everything's ok?"

Because I kinda love my life

I don't want anything to derail it

So that's definitely a little bit of an anxiety

I have a hyper vigilance

Another one is that I harbor a fear of abandonment

Especially when I feel vulnerable and exposed

There remains occasionally a sort of shadow side

That just feels like

What if the person I want the most

Doesn't want to be with me?

BR: is that from divorce?


JS: my parents divorced when I was young

BR: how old were you?

JS I was like 11, 12

BR: I was 7.

JS: I was shattered. Not because my dad didn't see us. He still came over every day.

but shattered by the sense of home and the sense of safety

Being fractured

So it's like ...

What Jordan Peterson says: you're hurled into chaos

Because the one thing you're sure of when you're a kid

is the omnipotence of your parents

The one thing you're sure of : is you're safe with them

They're not safe

Because they're clashing

My mom is crying

And my dad is angry

if my mom is not safe, then, how can I be safe?

If all my assumptions about them were called into question then all my assumptions about the world are called into question

And I'm hurled into question (in the words of Jordan Peterson)

It's the involuntary killing of the ego

Is what happens when you are betrayed by someone you love

And it's not necessarily because that betrayal was on purpose

My parents didn't betray me on purpose

But I was betrayed

My sense of safety was betrayed

By their inability to hold space for me in that sense

And that means that I .. and realize that I was safe all the time


Also growing up in Venezuela...

Those things you go back to in body memory

Psychedelic experiences


Panic reactions

When I lost track of my own borders too much

So there's that toeing that line between chaos and order

Altered states of consciousness

Where I lost track of my self

So much

That I felt confused and that I was in a disordered state


So, there's a big difference

Baseline is flat water

Flow or an altered state - is you're surfing the wave

But when you are a wipeout

And you're under water for too long and you can't breathe

Then, that's panic

I changed my mind.. I don't want to surf anymore. I'm drowning.


That's why panic attacks are always connected to "I can't breathe"

I definitely had a handful of those in my life

One in particular in which I thought I was dying

But everything was fine, by the way

But those leave like little echoes

And sometimes like late at night

If you're stressed out about something

Or if you didn't sleep well

Or if you feel alone

You might like have a brief moment where you gasp for air

Or like you feel like you didn't get enough air

And it's like that little reminder

Oh, I can't breathe


Ernest Becker says that's just the faint disquiet

That's just the moment in which you're all of a sudden reminded

That you're like - shit - mortal


Yeah, that's what I'm doing now with love

I did two sessions of MDMA with a therapist

I followed the protocols

that they're doing in all the studies

Where it was intentional

It was with a nurse, the whole thing

Two sessions with MDMA

And the reason I chose MDMA vs psilocybin or others is because

I think it's psychologically safer

You can't have a bad trip on MDMA

That's why it's better for PTSD than anything others

People with PTSD have panic disorder

You don't want to give them psilocybin and risk them having a fucking panic attack

On a classic psychedelic

MDMA is an empathogenic

It's heart opening

It boosts front cortex

So you're more engaged

It lowers activity in the amygdala

So, you're less afraid

It's a little bit stimulating because it's an amphetamine

It makes you feel relaxed

The call that the optimal arousal zone

Perfect for psychotherapy

And then again David Pierce calls it - MDMA -

The perfect human state

So, I was like , yeah, I want to do one of these sessions

And revisit my demons

Revisit my fears

Talk to my panic

Talk to my anxieties

And all of that

I feel it was very helpful

You have a lot of breakthroughs that day

but then you wonder

What's it going to be like next week?

Next month? Next year?

Sometimes the integration is slow

But then you notice things are just better

And then you notice that certain decisions that you leaned into

And you're like wow

I never thought it'd take ten years before I'd be able to go to Burning Man

And then I went

You know... it's been six years

Since I like

REALLY found a relationship that wasn't just like a short fling

Like, was the MDMA

Attributable to this?

This slowly but surely

Giving me the

Courage or the permission to lean into discomfort?


Maybe I'm just growing up

But who knows?

I'm definitely... I'm happy

I had the experience

BR: yeah, the integration is something I'm trying to get my head around

Because 3 months ago

I literally got the 10 commandments on 2nd ceremony

Number 1, 2, 3 make your wife the queen

Be the king

Do this, do that

And then at the very end of the ceremony

Let's review the 10 commandments

And then you get out of it, and my crew was there...

So I had to say all this to the camera

Everything I saw

And you're three months later

And you're like ... what was that commandment again?

And, what does that make me? A jerk?

And am I integrating subconsciously?

Then, I shouldn't be angry at myself for not implementing those things

It's this process

That I guess we all are integrating something

1:39:32 JS: I think what I'm looking for the most


Is faith

I never thought I'd say that but...


That everything will be ok...

I see progress everywhere...

I need more faith so I can sleep better at night on a regular basis

I want to believe

But I don't just want to believe

I want to know

BR: [ chuckles ] and you'll never know... but maybe you will

what to tell The 20 year old JS

Be more confident

Doubt boredom insecurity

Just dance like no one's walking [ correction: watching? ]


Lean in to what feels good


Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty

transmit, express

smile: Make them feel seen

1:44:25 not to feel intimidated

Not to compare themselves

Invent my own thing

Demons Comparison envy

vain and bitter


Making something that there was no comparison over so that I wouldn't labor over the suffering of judging myself

Against those that had come before

Take the road less traveled by... that will make all the difference

However, if what you decide to do is a path that's been carved

Borrow from your influences

But don't compare yourself to them

BR: and be ok with creating something new

you were dong this back in the day

I was filming these back in 1999

BR: that was before Google

1:46:42.... ending

BR: you going all in on the love thing Is very inspiring for me 1:47:33

I FEEL the tenderness

And for me...

I became a father a couple years ago

And that was the ultimate test

Are you ready?

To allow another human being to slice and dice your emotions

But it's been a great thing to push through